Basic Christianity: Idolatry with Kris Emerson

Speaker 1: In this episode of Balancing the Christian Life, we talk about idolatry. Welcome to Balancing the Christian Life. I'm Dr Kenny Embry. Join me as we discover how to be better Christians and people in the digital age. So how are you at avoiding idolatry? I think most of us feel pretty confident because there's not a statue of a farmyard animal in our yard or an altar where you're making sacrifices. I agree, that's good, but how are you really doing with avoiding idolatry? Sure, we know that things like our phones, money and fame can become idols, but what about those less obvious things, the one that seemed perfectly innocent? This is another one of those basic ideas of Christianity, and I chose a good friend of mine, chris Emerson, to talk about this with. He and I have talked about what idolatry truly is in the past, privately though, and I really liked his take on this. In this conversation, we'll explore how our very natural and understandable desires for things like security or self-reliance or self-esteem can turn into something that subtly pushes God out of the picture. It's a conversation that I think will challenge you to think differently about what it means to truly trust God. We'll talk about three different stages of idolatry. That comes on later in the conversation and we'll help you identify those really kind of sneaky idols that might be hiding in plain sight. So let's start here, chris. What is idolatry? Let's start here, chris. Speaker 2: What is idolatry? What is idolatry? Well, the sort of standard approach I think is good is anything that replaces God. It's probably our typical definition. We think of polytheism in the Old Testament and even the New Testament, times where they created a lot of things that they went to for the answers that they needed and those things weren't God. I think it all feeds out of personal need, and where you go for the solutions to that need, whether they're perceived or innate and real, there are things that every person believes they need to find. Maybe you need to find peace, maybe you need to find happiness , maybe you need to find direction in life or mission, or everybody's looking for those things, and so there's a thousand directions to look, and the gospel says that Jesus Christ, by the gift of God, is that answer. He is not an answer. He is the answer. He is the source answer. He is the answer, he is the source. And so when I think of idolatry, it's easy to go. Well, that was this really silly. You know, old-time thing where they worship these created beings, but you know they were just looking for answers to their needs. And for me, idolatry is when you find those things in places that are not God. I find a lot of happiness in things like pickleball, but it's not a needed thing to solve a problem. Christ is my problem solver and I go to him first and foremost. Anything that answers the deep problems of your heart and brings you the peace to live and thrive if it is not God. Speaker 1: When we look at idolatry in the Old Testament, really what we think about are statues of animals. We think about Aaron and Moses. We might even think about what Isaiah has to say, which is somebody brings in a piece of wood, they make one half of it into an idol and they burn the other half for warmth, and I think one of the things that we feel pretty safe with is, yeah, we don't really have any idols like that. I mean, I have, I don't know, all day. Today, I have managed to keep from worshiping a cow. It was a big temptation for me today, but I just didn't do it, emerson, and I'm very proud of myself. That's great, yeah, I know, but I think one of the things you talk about, really anything that takes the place of God To us in the 21st century we think that's kind of a silly thing to do. Why were they ever tempted to worship cows and frogs and things that, quite frankly, kind of seem ridiculous? Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question. I don't know the answer to that on a sort of theological, godlike level, because those things were, like the prophet said, dumb and they couldn't speak and they didn't do anything. But it does say that it's built within the human thought and heart to seek for a power outside of ourselves that is greater, that becomes a benefactor, this idea that there is some benevolent force. Remember, like I'm trying to kind of set up here. I have these needs. I have things in my life that are very important that I cannot create on my own or provide on my own. I need a greater outside source to do that. So if I turn to the God of heaven, it is provided. It is provided on his timescale , it is provided in ways that he sees fit. You can't just look to the great God of heaven for the blessings, but not the authority and the leadership. So polytheism said let's just go out and make that happen on our own. Let's invest our hearts in this God and this God and all these different gods that service particular parts of our lives. It says that if we can create an external, greater force, now the problem is we're creating an external great you can't like. If you didn't have the power to provide it for yourself, then you don't have the power to create a God to provide it to you. It's all very silly, but I also think it's interesting to see the poly side of it, that you know there was a God for the harvest and there was a God for fertility and there was a God for sunlight, and this relates to us a little bit. Nobody would say I'll go out and create a force to give me blessings and multiple forces. But you know, idolatry today does look like that. If you listed, like, the top five needs of your life, you know provisions or peace or a happy home, there are plenty of non-God things out there that you can devote yourself to that will seem like they will plug that hole, like they will, even though you know they're inanimate, you know they're not a, you're not God. They will answer it, but you'll always need a bunch of them. You know you'll need um I mentioned pickleball. You'll need uh, you'll need golf to calm your nerves at work , but it won't help your marriage, right that, you'll need another God for that. So, um, I think the thing about God is the one true Yahweh God is. He is an active, living, powerful force who has proven his existence over us and he is the one stop shop. He is going to provide for every deficiency and hole in our lives, but it's going to have to be on his timescale, his way, and maybe we're just not always really great at giving ourselves over to that. Speaker 1: I completely agree. I think one of the other things is it's easy for us to point back and say weren't they idiots ? I cannot believe they fell for that. Here they are and they're worshiping animals. That is kind of stupid, and let's just be clear about it. That is, that's kind of stupid. Aren't we so much smarter? And I think we all kind of recognize that we probably do many of the same things. I'll go ahead and tell you One of the idols that I have is my 403B, which is a lot like a 401K . It is the security, it is the financial security that I am trying to have in my old age, that I am absolutely preparing for that. I am making sacrifices for that . I am trying to have in my old age. That I am absolutely preparing for that. I am making sacrifices for that . I am giving a lot of my attention and devotion. My goodness, my 403b looks a lot like an idol in some ways, because I'm doing exactly the same kinds of things that I would do for God. I'm doing a lot of the same kinds of things that I am doing for, you know, any other kind of system of belief, and I sure am putting a lot of faith in kinds of things that I am doing for, you know, any other kind of system of belief and I sure am putting a lot of faith in that 403B and I think one of the things that that I think it's it's it's. It's easy for us to criticize that which we are divorced from in time and space and and not see it as we do it exactly the same way, just with other names. You see what I'm saying. Speaker 2: Yeah, boy, if you really believe that, kenny, and if anybody's listening and they've got their thing, that is filling that hole and they feel like they have to have it. I think that that needs to be reflected in the way you pray. I think you pray to God and say if you are my one true source, rich or poor, healthy or sick, I'm always going to turn to you and know that you will care for me. But I have these other things that I think might be becoming as important as you. It might be your savings account, it might be your health , it might be a significant other that can be blessings. Here's the thing they can be blessings from a benevolent God if he is the centerpiece of that , but in your prayer you have to be willing to say if those are the things upon which my joy is dependent, then implement your power, god, and do something to break me of that. That's a scary thing to ask A lot of the idolatry in the Old Testament. They weren't really ready to give it up until it fell off a stand and busted into pieces. Even then they had to set it back up a few times. Sometimes your idols have to fail you in order for you to recognize that you've been putting your future, your daily peace in the wrong places. And how sad it is that they could just be blessings, just things God is just handing to us . But as they begin to replace him, we need to be willing to call on him to get involved, to break us of that allure. Speaker 1: What we started talking about a little bit is something that has to do with things that are really kind of, in and of themselves, good things. I'm not going to knock a 401k. I think a 401k is a wise thing to do for most people. A 401k is a wise thing to do for most people. I think even God himself, in some of the parables and some of the Proverbs would say you're an idiot if you do not prepare for the future, so you need to put some stuff away for the future. I think that is honestly some really good advice, but you know as well as I do that there are a lot of really good things that can become idols. There are a lot of really good things that can become idols. So can you think of some things that can become idols for us that in and of themselves they're good things? Speaker 2: but when they decide that what they're going to do is push God out of his place now we start to have problems. There's probably several ways to approach this, but the thing that comes to mind is when God asks you to give them up or give them to him or sacrifice them. Look, whatever's in your savings account is fine, but if you've ever read the book of Luke, you will get beat up by the idea that Jesus wants to see you share those goods with other people. He's fine that you draw security out of them. Keep some of it if you need to, but be ready, willing and active in helping and serving. You know it's an idol when you're asked to diminish it for the sake of God and his glory, and that's of course. Jesus taught that in the Sermon on the Mount and you cannot serve God and mammon. But it's not just money, is it? No, it's not. It's scheduling and energy. It's your family. I think about husbands loving your wives, like Christ loves the church. He purifies her, he presents her to God. God sanctified Gentlemen, god wants your wife and kids. He made them, he wants them, he wants them to be his, he wants them to be purified and he wants them in heaven. They can become your idol if you are so engrossed with what you get out of them and what they say about you that God doesn't get them. And God demands that you sacrifice what you want out of it to submit them to him. And so that's all. Part of prayer is don't let our blessings be turned into idols or curses. But the practical part is the scripture is constantly demanding that we take what is of value to us and keep less of it and give him and others more of it. And you know you wouldn't do that with your God. You wouldn't give up any part of God for anybody. Well, if these things become your God, that's how you'll know it. You'll have that white knuckle grip where you're hanging on because your peace, your identity, your life is directly tied to them. Now it's different with money and family. Money you just give it away. Family, I don't mean you give up your family. I don't mean, like Hannah, you take Samuel at the age of whatever and give him over. But there's a lot of nuance to that that does connect. And so when you're asked to hand it or them to God that's how you know, depends how tight your grip is. Speaker 1: It even. I think and I'm not going to put words in your mouth, I'll go ahead and say this for myself One of the stories that I've grappled with for a long time I think everybody does is when God tells Abraham I need you to kill Isaac, I need you to go sacrifice Isaac. And really, I mean one of the things that Abraham knows is, yeah, it's killing his son. Terrible idea, terrible, terrible, terrible. It is killing his family, but it's also killing his legacy and it's killing his promise that God has given him. And what God is basically saying is do you love me more than the promises that I've given you? Do you love me more than what you're hoping to get out of the relationship that you have with me? And do you see what I'm saying there? Because I think one of the things were the promises that God gave good, they were an absolute good. And God comes back and he says will you sacrifice those for our relationship? You see what I'm saying there? Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it starts to get into this idea that idolatry happens when we misunderstand why we've been given things by God. The objective is to glorify God and demonstrate our faith in him by the things that he has given. And your example, kenny, is God saying I've given you this son, now I'm asking you to give him back to me. Well, there's where the idolatry kicks in. I receive, I don't give. I receive it from you, but I'm not willing to give it back to you. It's like it was yours, god, but now it's mine. And that's where idolatry begins to kick in. That replacement here's kind of a side point on this and maybe we can go this direction because I think it affects us religiously. One of the idols of the Old Testament that we know really well is the golden calf. I mean, everybody knows the story in Exodus and you can check this out. It's not important. You agree with me here. Only you admit that I'm correct on this, but I'm not convinced that the golden calf was a replacement for the Yahweh God, right. That's a bridge too far, that they said hey we no longer believe that there is a God who delivered us, who provides for us. Let's take our earrings and make a chunk of metal and that's our new provider. It's just, I can't go there. He was too great. I'm convinced they were replacing Moses. He'd been on the mountain 40 days. They see God, they love God, they want to pursue God, but the way that they're being asked to do it is to sacrifice. They're just waiting. It's been over a month and we're waiting on this guy. We don't know when he's going to come back. So here's what we're going to do. We still love God. We still want to communicate with God. Do we still love God? We still want to communicate with God and we want him to bless us, but this Moses concept is not working for us. So what we're going to do is we're going to make golden calf. I believe that the golden calf is a replacement of the mediator , but it was still idolatry. So idolatry was not replacing God with something that is now God. It can also be replacing God's plan, replacing God's will. You say God, I see how you want me to be. I see you want me to be giving. I see you want me to go to worship and be with God's people . I see that you want me to be sharing Jesus with others, but those are really not great for me. So I have another. I'm still, it's still about you . God still love you, but I have this, um, this different way that I'm going to do it that just so happens to really fit the way that I would like to do it. That's idolatry too. Yeah, so idolatry is. It's more than just replacing God with something else. It's replacing the will and the way of God, which is something that is designed to fit me, not designed to glorify. Speaker 1: Him. Yeah, I agree with what you're saying there. I think one of the things is we often put things—we use our own judgment to say, well, I mean, god didn't really mean this. So I mean, obviously he didn't really want us to follow Moses, he really wants us to follow him . So what we're going to do here is we're going to get back to God here, but Moses is obviously gone, so we're just not going to be able to, and we've heard all these strange things going on on the mountain. So moses may be dead at this point. So we just need to and now it's we're doing this the best that we can. God, we're just. We're just. Here are the decisions that we made. Will you please rubber stamp these decisions? Do you see what I'm saying? Is that what you're saying, emerson? Speaker 2: Yeah, idolatry is quick fix, it's ready-made, it has no real power, but it requires very little patience, and I think that's a bet some of us are willing to take. Maybe, if I put my focus on this thing, maybe I will or will not get a payoff, but at least I can do it right now. And that was the whole point. Is patience patiently following me. Wait the 40 days. You need to learn to wait. So I think idolatry, whether it comes in the form of money, time, energy or religious compromise, is generally a lack of patience in the way the one true God operates, and that's how it slowly shifts to serving ourselves instead of Him. Speaker 1: Yeah, what are some other good things in and of themselves that are good things, that can become idols? I mean, we've already talked about family. We've even talked about figuring out different ways that undoubtedly these things are good for God. I mean, I came up with them, but undoubtedly God will accept these things. What are some other things that can in and of themselves be good things but, when put in the place of God, become their own idols? Speaker 2: Yeah, you know we could make a list, but I think it's just everything it says. I get up in the morning and I think I need to live to the glory of the Lord today. I need to find a way to use my blessings and my challenges in some way to Ephesians 1, to the praise of his glory. And if I get up in the morning and I don't think about that, I don't think about how do I use all of this to glorify God. Idolatry has become the theme of the day, no matter what you're doing, because now everything you're doing today is about you getting through the day, what you can get out of it, just sort of stopping those, you know, plugging those holes with quick fixes instead of appreciating that those holes might be useful to help you and I don't know like anything, and that's what we want people to get. Idolatry, clearly immorality, things that the scripture speaks against, are idols, but the devil would love for you to think that idols can only be terrible things, which is the nature of your question. It's not an idol if it's good, if it's a spouse, if it's a job you love, if it's a nice savings account, if it's a hobby, then it can't be an idol if it's not ungodly. But whatever an idol is by definition, anything that's fulfilling God's purpose for your life. That's not God is an idol, and in that way we have to set the tone categorically towards God every morning, because otherwise anything and everything can slip in and take that on. Speaker 1: Right and one of the ones and this is my opinion, I'm not going to put this opinion in your mouth I think things like being a righteous person, in other words, being so proud that I have learned how to do exactly the right thing, and part of that is the pride of righteousness. Look, I think one of the things that God is I think Jesus is clearly condemning with the Pharisees is you guys think you're right with the Pharisees? Is you guys think you're right and what you're missing is the relationship with God? I think that's, and I'm not going to speak for you, I'll just speak for me. I like being right, emerson. I like knowing the right answer . I like doing the right things. I like being on the right side of history. I like, look, you just look at this in so many different ways, but I don't. Jesus came for people who knew they weren't doing the right thing, who knew that they needed a Savior, that they needed a physician. Do you see what I'm saying? Do you agree with this? Feel free to disagree. Speaker 2: No, yeah, of course, everything boils down to self. That's what's so fascinating about idle conversations. You can say it's any number of things, but really life forever, especially, I feel like it's especially true in our time and culture, but probably in every time and culture it really boils down to either God rules or you rule. It's about you or it's about him about him and the thing about putting faith in our own righteousness. Here's what's really cool about that. If you can convince yourself to do it, if you put faith in your relationship with God and how you're doing it, then that means you don't have to change. You don't have to change anything. You're right, kenny. You just keep doing what you're comfortable doing and God loves it and it's all about him. It's not about you, it's don't even bother yourself with that thought. It's you're great, but you don't have to change. You don't have to bend the knee from any position that you don't want to take because you're right, and you don't have to sacrifice anything, because everything you're currently sacrificing is the model sacrificer. You know that. That's the problem with things like righteousness and faith when they become an idol. How do you know it? It's like I mentioned a bit ago when God asks you to sacrifice it or change it. You're reluctant to do so because you've reached this place. And you're exactly right. It's the Pharisees. The Pharisees had a form of religion that fit them well. They had cultivated it over time, they had molded it like a piece of stone into an idol. They had it exactly like they liked it. It serviced them very well. It fit their tendencies. It elevated them over others, which they liked, and people liked that. Jesus comes in and says how about we change everything? How about we start talking about heart? How about we start talking about how you treat other people and opening your home? And how about we start worshiping God instead of the Sabbath? How about we? And they're like we're not changing, so we're going to kill you, we are so not changing that we're going to reject you. And he said yeah, you've been doing that for a long time with the prophets. Even our own sort of religiosity , our own faith, becomes an idol when the way it is right now is filling this gap in our heart, making us feel great. And even when God himself comes in through scripture or through providence or people and says change that, yeah, sacrifice that, yeah, give that position up. And we're like we can't do that and we feel very noble about it , but now our own religion is idolatrous, when it is the end instead of God and glorifying God and being shaped by God. I think a great way to look at that is just if you've been a long-term Christian, are you still growing? Are you still changing? Do you still find out how wrong you are about things? If you're, like no, pretty much found home plate. Then, man, open up the gospels and read them again, because Jesus is, he's always going to be the Lord, and he's going to prove it by poking on you a lot and asking you to change for him . And that's when you choose Is it my religion, that's my God, or is Jesus my God? Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I use the parable of the prodigal son a lot. I think the characters in there are pretty obvious the older brother. If you've never read the prodigal son, go out and read it . It's in Luke. It's a short story. I want to say it's about 10 verses. It doesn't take a long time to read it. And there are three main characters. There's a dad, there's two sons . There's a younger son that says his money and comes back home with his tail tucked between his legs. The older son is upset that his dad is happy that his son is back. And the older son has been righteous and has said I've done everything that you've ever wanted me to do and yet you're not excited about who I am. And when you start thinking about that story, jesus is. The older son is obviously the Pharisees. When you look at the context of that verse, he's talking to Pharisees and they would have recognized that they're talking about the Pharisees. And one of the things that I appreciate about that older son is it is nowhere disputed in there that the older son did anything wrong. He was basically resting on his righteousness. The idea behind that I will say that there is a larger thing that he did wrong is that he basically sacrificed the relationship with his brother and to a certain extent, I would say he sacrificed the relationship with his dad. I think he worshipped his dad's stuff more than he worshipped his dad, and the father in that story is obviously God. I don't think anybody should worship their physical dad, but one of the things that I would say is, when you look at who righteousness with good and good stuff, which is exactly the problem discussed in Job you see what I'm saying here, emerson. Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so glad you brought up that story. I think it helps us move in a little bit of a different direction, one that I hope that we would go to, because when our righteousness becomes our God, it gets shown very clearly in the way we judge and label others. We take on the role of God. You cannot adopt a faith of your own that is independent of God and not eventually try to become the judge. I think about that story in a bunch of different ways, but one is I mean, what if the dad had been out of town the day the brother approached and the only person he found was the older brother? He would have been scathed and rebuked. He would not have represented the judgment of God. He would have represented a judgment on his brother that felt right to him, that he could justify with eight reasons, and none of them would be accurate to the judgments, the mercy and the grace of the father. Here at Lindell we just finished with Jonah. We did a 12 week study on Wednesday nights on Jonah and came out of a book I found. I found a Tim Keller book in an old library and I read the first fit. I always like find a book under $5, read the first 50 pages and see if it sticks. And so I sat down and he said in the first chapter. He said Jonah. He said you know the story of the prodigal son, which we do. He said Jonah is both brothers. I said that's it. I'm buying this book Like you had me at the beginning. Jonah was the brother who ran from God when God told him what to do. But he's also the second brother who, when the people repented, he was mad about it. He didn't want them to repent. And there was this line in that book, that boy I hesitate to even put it out there because I feel like it'd take a long time to kind of dissect. But when you need God to issue a certain judgment on others, to validate yourself, that has become an idol. The judgment you demand, you've labeled someone, you've decided they aren't worthy of mercy, or you've decided they haven't truly asked forgiveness, or you've decided they need a certain consequence, and that is , you've not only taken on the faith of God as your own. Now you are now God yourself and you're going to make judgments. You're going to decide who's. And that's what Jonah did. Jonah took on from God the right to judge others and he decided these people aren't worthy to be taught, they're not worthy to be forgiven and they're not worthy to be saved. And that's what the older brother did. And so now here's the progress. Let me recap this I think idolatry happens in three ways. There's level one, which is you replace God with other things to fill the void in your life. Number two is you don't replace God, but you replace the way you get to God with what works for you. And number three is you take on the wrath and judgment of God and you need it to be a certain way. If God listen, if God needs to do something a certain way to validate judgments you've made, then that outcome has become your idol, not the God who provided it. God can say, god can do whatever he pleases. I need to be open to his guidance, not my own conclusion. So I think some of our own conclusions and judgments. We talked a lot about people making labels about others and canceling others, all these terminology that's popular in our culture. They think they're making the great, right decision, but that decision is an idol because you don't speak for God on those things, who reads hearts and all that. So that's sort of level three. Idolatry is when you've basically taken on the scepter of the Lord to carry out his judgments and his conclusions on his behalf. That's replacing him with yourself and that's idolatry. Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. I think there were probably some Pharisees I think Paul was one of them who, with all good conscience, thought he was defending the right thing. He just wasn't. And I think one of the things that happened to him is people who he admired, who he thought were the very best people and I have no reason to to to believe that, that these weren't guys that were sincere, that these guys had all the answers. And again that road to Damascus moment, where Paul realizes that the conclusion that he reached, as innocent as as he is because that's basically one of the things he says which is the entire time that I worshiped God as a Jew, as a Christian, I did everything in good conscience. He was just wrong and at some point he got to the point where he recognized it's God that I'm working against. I have replaced God with something else. You see what I'm saying there, emerson. Speaker 2: Yeah, precisely the point we're making. If God wants to change, you humble, you open your eyes to things, and that means you're going to have to abandon something that you've said about someone. Or you're going to have to abandon something that you've said about someone, or you're going to have to apologize for taking on judgment that isn't your own. If you're saying I can't do that, then there is idolatry in your heart and it is. It is a religious sort of self-centered idolatry. I was thinking about where since we're kind of talking about brethren a little bit and the older brother, younger brother I was doing the daily Bible read here in James just this week, and the whole context is about humility. That's the whole idea is, if we're prideful, god's going to bring us low, because pride is really a self-exaltation into a place that God deserves. And yet if we're humble and we put him first, he's going to come in and do all the great things that he does. But when he applies that, he applies it in this way Do not speak against one another, brethren. He who speaks against a brother or judges his brother speaks against the law and judges the law. If you judge the law, you're not a doer of the law, you're a judge of it. There's only one lawgiver and judge, the one who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you? Who judge your neighbor? That, who are you idea is you have elevated yourself into a position reserved only for the creator, god. God judges the wrath. I was preaching. The other day I got to preach up in Oregon. It was really cool, but we were doing 1 Timothy 2 about men. Lift up holy hands in prayer without wrath or dissension. That word wrath men in every place, without wrath, wrath. There is throughout the New Testament, a word generally reserved for God. God gets that, god dispenses wrath. I don't. I don't get to make decisions because my decisions will often be affected by my own bias and my own thoughts and whatever. So if I need certain outcomes and, by the way, that was Jonah, jonah needed that city to fry he needed, he even stuck around after God's judgment, just to watch. He wanted to wait at least 41 days to see if maybe we get a Sodom and Gomorrah outcome and he can be excited. He needed and I'm just going to put this in a way that may only touch a few people's hearts. If you need someone to be in hell in the end to validate yourself and your faith and your judgments, then just be careful , because somewhere along the way you've elevated your judgments into the place of judging. You've taken on God's seat and when God comes in judgment, you'd be very surprised. I've said a lot got to say it this week in Oregon too but like I used to be really concerned that in the judgment I'd be standing with someone and going this is my brother, I accept him and have Jesus standing against him, which would be a very precarious place. But I'm more concerned. I am concerned about that, but I'm more concerned with, in the end, there being someone that I've said is lost. My conclusions have said this person and I will not listen carefully. We're not going to be in eternity together. It's not going to happen Right, and we get to the judgment and Jesus is standing next to him. What does that mean? Yeah, I made Jesus choose. I took on God's role and I created a religion that demanded a chasm between that person and me, and Jesus awarded me that chasm, except that guy's in heaven and I'm not. Be careful. Replacing God yes. Be careful. Creating your own path to God yes, but be careful becoming God . Be really careful with that, because that is an elevated and very dangerous form of idolatry. Speaker 1: There's a certain sense of surrender that you have to have when you're going to be a Christian Again. We can go back to Job, where Job basically says even if God slays me, I'll still trust him. Even if God slays me, I'll still trust him. The sense of surrender of the prodigal son who says you know what, anything you guys decide to do to me, I deserve, whatever it is I need to do to be back in this house, that's what I need to do and I'll be happy to do it. The sense of surrender that Paul has when he can't talk and when he can't see and he says you know, just just whatever's going to happen here, that's, that's just what's going to have to happen here. Or even on his missionary journeys, where he's basically the snot is beat out of him and he keeps on going back and he just basically says look, I, I know y'all are going to have to beat me up again, but guess what ? I'm just going to have to be beat up again because I can't stop doing this. Or the apostles who say you know what, if you guys need to throw us in prison, I guess you're going to have to throw us in prison because we just can't stop doing this thing that impresses me about all those characters is that was not their will. They didn't get to dictate the terms on which they were received. They did not get to dictate the . And I think, when it comes down to what is idolatry really and you kind of made allusion to this it's wanting to control things that you'd love to control. And talk about a dumb animal. You've got a crop that if that crop doesn't make next year, your family isn't fed, and I understand the fear in that. And if sacrificing something to a statue makes you feel better, I would probably do the same thing. There's a lot of insurance that , if it's real or if it's not real, I'd like that insurance. I'd like that feeling that I have done everything that I can in order to make sure that my family is fed next year. And I guess one of the things you're saying is and not just you. And I guess one of the things you're saying is and not just you God doesn't give us those promises. He promises that he will take care of us, but we don't get to dictate the terms that we're taking care of. You see what I'm saying. Speaker 2: Emerson yeah, wouldn't that be great. You know we dictate the terms. I dictate my own terms, yeah, but then who's God? Now, you know, that's the whole point, I think, just as we kind of get to the end of this I mentioned to you at the very beginning, there are lots of things that we're just missing that we want. We want peace, we want purpose, we want happiness, we want a sense of belonging. But if the goal is to get, if that becomes your daily goal to get up, how do I fill this? How do I get this? God does want to provide those things, but that's a really dangerous place to begin, because you're going to face a couple of tough questions. One how far from God am I willing to go to get it? How much compromise of God am I willing to put in here to go and fill this? So now I am the power and I am the purpose. I'm going to do a lot of work to make myself happy. Boy, I'm God, all over that thing. And the way that you know how it's going is when God asks you to do things you don't want to do, when God asks you to give up things that you'd rather keep, when you have to choose between his outstretched hand calling from you or your tight fist holding onto it. I mean, I just don't think there's a truer tell. I don't think that it could be sin. And you know what? There's a podcast episode now. There could be sin giving up sin but we're not talking to those people today. We're talking to people who hold a very good thing in their hand that they worked really hard to get and that seems to be filling that void within them. And now your story of Abraham. Now God's just going to ask me to give it to him. Then you find out who this is all really about. Speaker 1: The one who is asking Abraham to sacrifice Isaac loves both Abraham and Isaac. He's not asking us to do things that we cannot do. He's asking us to do things that we can do. He's asking us to do things that we can do and learn how to trust him more. The true problem with idolatry is you will run out of yourself really fast If you will give it to God. You can't run out of that. Speaker 2: This gets into a really cool category that I don't have the ability to explain. But you know, with dumb idols of the old Testament they had no real power. It was all very mental, you know it was if we set up this outside power and then it rains tomorrow week, I don't know, just all kind of worked for them , but it there was no real power in those things. And the thing about God is there is real power. Uh, my son Luke did a little Lord Supper talk last week about the woman who bled for 12 years and then reached out and touched Jesus' coat and the power went from it. Just the power just rushed from him to her, a power greater than her, and I think about in Ephesians 1, the power he prays that our eyes will be opened to the power of God, to those who believe Like this isn't just about a construct that works. This is about a universe creator with all power, presence and knowledge, who does and can do things greater than you. Dr Phil, you know I love my old Dr Phil line People do it their way. And he'd just say he wouldn't chastise them for the path, that he'd just say how's that working out for you? And he always knew the answer Terrible. So be careful of realizing it's a good step that I can't make this life what it ought to be of my own power Awesome. But be careful of that second step where you go out and construct a system that will, because it's still powerless. True faith in the Lord and belief in the Lord is that his limitless power and knowledge and love is going to do incredible things. Now they may not be the thing you want that's the thing Right and you may have to wait 40 days at the foot of the mountain and you may have to offer your own. But if his power is everything we believe that it is, then he is our God and we belong to him, and that's the way every day has got to start, and then everything else will fit into place. Speaker 1: Well, we've talked a lot about idolatry and really, I think what you and I both kind of landed on is that idolatry is really substituting ourselves or something that we want to trust in that is less than perfect. That will ultimately fail us. I end all of my podcasts with be good and do good. What's good about keeping God in his place? Keeping God? Speaker 2: in his place. From a faith standpoint, Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, and he's the only way to get where you really want to go. We, we get short sighted and things that we want, but what we want is we want a life of peace and purpose and we want to live forever in glory. Speaker 1: Right, mm-hmm, yeah, so, um, yeah, I would only add one thing, and the one who is holding that big bucket of blessing loves you. He really wants to give it to you. If you'll require that love, he'll give it to you. All right, emerson, as always, thank you. I really appreciate what you had to say about this. Speaker 2: It's been too long. Kenny, I really love talking to you and you guys don't get to see his pretty face, but I get to see him on on video. Lord willing, I'll be in Florida a little later this year , a couple times maybe, so a cup of coffee on me when I get there. Speaker 1: I'm up for it. I didn't really introduce Chris before we started talking. Chris is an evangelist in Lindale, texas, and he's married to his wife, summer, and has some children of his own. Chris is somebody who I've known for a long time and he's become a very good friend. I appreciate who Chris is and what he does. I know I can't speak for you, but I can definitely speak for me. I have a bigger problem with idolatry than I think I do. In other words, there are a lot of things that I think are in and of themselves good and I would never, ever consider them to be idols, but in many ways they just are. I think this is an important conversation. By the way, that interpretation of the prodigal son is something that I stole partially from a good friend of mine, edwin Crozier. Edwin was the one who turned me on to that. Both boys really had the same problem they didn't want the father, they just wanted the father's stuff. He's right. I think he makes a good point and it's something that I'm stealing, but hopefully not stealing without giving proper citation. Edwin's a smart guy and I don't mind stealing from him at all. He's also a good friend, by the way, if you want to hear that conversation. It's on a three-part series from Hal Hammond's podcast, citizens of Heaven. I enjoyed having that conversation and Hal's a very good guy Speaking of good guys. As of today, we are about four or five days away from having the Balancing the Christian Life 2024 conference. If you have not signed up for it, you still have time to do that. Just go to my website at balancingthechristianlifecom, and there are links to both the speaker grid to show you who's talking and also places to sign up for the conference. It is free. There are ways that you can help us defray the costs, but it is a free event. It is a totally online conference, so I'm looking forward to you being there and seeing other people, other Christians, thinking about something similar. So until next time, let's be good and do good.